Episode 19 - The Version of You That Has to Die

There's a version of every man that has to die so a better one can live.

Not a dramatic death. A slow, painful letting go. And most men don't talk about the grief that comes with it.

In this one, I sit with the version of me I had to bury. The people-pleaser. The imposter operating for validation. The version of me that numbed everything with partying and drugs because the inner voice wouldn't quiet down. The man my friends thought was the life of the party, but who was secretly disposable to most of them.

I talk about the two breaking points. The friendship fallout that killed the people-pleaser. And the moment at home — the depressive state so deep I wanted to end my life — and my wife telling me it might be best I leave.

That was the moment. Not 'wanted to change.' Had to.

This episode isn't a comeback story. It's a reckoning. It's about who I was, what it cost, and the grief that comes with letting that man go — even when you know you have to.

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In this episode:

— The song that takes me straight back to the version of me that had to die

— What I was numbing in my younger years and why it worked until it didn't

— Operating as an imposter to feel chosen by people who saw me as disposable

— The friendship fallout that woke me up

— The moment at home that forced the real change

— What I had to let go of — the masks, the lifestyle, the dance floor

— The pushback from people who preferred the old me

— What the new version looks like in the day-to-day

— When the old me still shows up — and how I recognise him now

— A message to the man still carrying the version of himself he can't keep carrying

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If you're walking this road — I'd love to hear from you. Reply on Substack or send me a DM on Instagram.

The Walk is a fortnightly podcast about fatherhood, marriage, mental health, and the inner work most men never talk about. New episodes every other Monday.

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Connect:

• Substack: https://substack.com/@thewalkpodcast

• Instagram: @thewalk__podcast

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheWalkPodcast47

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Mental health support:

This episode discusses depression and suicidal thoughts. If you're struggling, please reach out.

Australia — Lifeline: 13 11 14  •  Beyond Blue: 1300 22 4636

International — findahelpline.com

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Thank you for walking with me.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hello everyone, welcome back to The Walk. I'm Jake Donnelly, and this week we're discussing the version of you that has to die. The old you, the masks, and why growth demands grief. As always, this is a space for raw, honest, non-judgmental conversation. So thank you for walking alongside me again. If you are a first-time listener, thank you for joining us on the walk. Please subscribe and follow. Even if you're a longtime listener and you realize that you haven't subscribed or followed, please do. It means a lot more than you realize, and it grows this community substantially. So thank you so much for everyone that has been here. And if you're a first-time listener, the thank you is just as important. So let's jump straight in. I think I'll start with the contrast of sort of who I was to who I am now. And there's a song that I hear, and when I do hear it, it takes me straight back to who I was, especially a summer that was for me as a young man, probably the greatest summer I've ever had. Um, and that song is Don't You Worry, Child, by Swedish House Mafia. And it takes me straight back to that summer. Uh, I was what I thought was carefree. I mean, I was still battling a lot of mental demons, but masked it uh quite heavily with other things, which we'll get into throughout this episode. Um, but I just go back to those moments and just remember being so carefree with like no anxiety lingering, like it does now, um, or it has over the years. And that version of me honestly felt invincible, but it was also running from a lot and running from something. And I think there's a version of every man that needs to die so a better one can live. And it's not a dramatic death, it's probably a slow and painful letting go of who you were, and that's taken me a lot of years, and I think fatherhood has sort of sped up that process. Um, and there were th there are definitely things that I've held on to for a long period of time that I should have let go of long ago. And I the issue I find is not a lot of men talk about the grief in that, and there is a lot of grief around that. You go from being, like I said, carefree, no anxiety, lingering, having your absolute best life, feeling invincible, and all of a sudden that part of you has to die in order for you to grow. Who I was prior to this. So, who I was prior to children, who I was probably prior to meeting my wife, which was 10 years ago, but even in early days in those. I'm not gonna romanticize who I was. Uh, I was just gonna be completely honest with who I was, and I'm gonna tell you what I was operating as and who I was operating as, and who and what who and what it was costing me. So I was a young man who grew up always putting others first, and I bottled emotions and I handled situations so poorly that I just didn't have the tools that I have now to make the decisions uh with the right intentions that I do make now. I only had the tools that I had at the time. And younger years sort of centered around a lot of partying, drinking, and I'll be completely honest, recreational drug use. Now I wasn't a drugie, I wasn't a uh a junkie, but I did enjoy it myself, um, probably sometimes a little bit too much. And it's not something that I've really spoken about before. Uh obviously, your friendship group is aware of of the things that you do when you're younger, but family and stuff this may be confronting for you the first time. But at the end of the day, like I was a young man, enjoying his early 20s um uh to mid-20s, and and that just that's just how life was at that time. But I was you utilising all those things, so the partying, the drinking, the recreational drug use, just to really numb my inner thoughts. And there's always been an inner voice in my head telling me that I'm not good enough, that I'll never be good enough. And I think that stems a lot from younger years, uh, probably around that sporting aspect where you sort of have that belief in yourself that you are good, but then you're constantly getting shut down and facing adversity. I remember living in New Zealand, we lived there for a period of time, and we moved back to Victoria, and I was a I was a large set kid. I was a, you know, what you would call a chubby or a fat kid, and um, but I was really good at soccer and I absolutely dominated the Victorian schoolboys tryouts, and they didn't pick me purely because of my my weight and how I looked. I suppose I didn't fit their image, and and and that's pretty hurtful to a young man, especially when you're 12 or 13 and you're trying to mature and trying to get into um professional sport, I suppose you'd call it. Whereas when I was in New Zealand, it was very, you know, he's got talent, he just needs to trim up, but we can work with his talent. And I always think back like if I had to stay there, like I was playing semi-professional football or soccer um from a young age, you know, 11 or 12, uh, representing um, you know, uh your city or your town, um, you know, maybe even getting a glimpse into what a national, national side sort of thing would look like. I was that good, but um it I think my a lot of my that you're not good enough stems from those days. I also think it stems from probably when we're younger, we're sort of told, especially if you are a sportsman, um, and I'm sure a lot of people will be able to relate to this, that it was it was always, or I always felt it was kind of like we, you know, we hope you succeed so that we don't have to work again. Or it was never like we hope you succeed because of the hard work you put in. And it always just felt like it was lingering the back. And when I played a bad game, or when I wasn't at my best, it just felt like I was failing and letting a lot more people down than probably just myself, and probably very hard on myself. Very body conscious. I've been very body conscious since I was young. I used to get bullied quite heavily, uh, especially when we lived in New Zealand for being a fat kid. I used to get bashed, uh, used to get taunted, used to get picked on. Um, so I've always had this thing where I always thought you just you're fat, you're ugly, and and I I've carried that throughout all my years. Like even when I was younger and I was in the fittest I was, um in those you know, early 20s, late teens, uh, even into sort of mid-20s. And and even now, like I still look at myself. I'm I'm one of those people who can't just like go to the bathroom, get changed, hop in the shower, all you know, strip down to hop in the shower, then stare at myself for 15 minutes, just critiquing every aspect of my body. Uh, and and I'm I'm lucky I've got my wife, and uh, I don't know, maybe she just needs to tell me that I'm handsome or tell me that I'm beautiful because that's part of her job. But um, or she thinks it's part of her job, but um, I mean, at the end of the day, I'm always asking, like, how do I look in this? How do I look in that? Um, I don't feel comfortable in this. I'll change clothes 400 times before we head out somewhere. Um, very much I won't eat um if we're going out drinking or something, which is a terrible way to handle it. So if there's any young person listening, always eat before you drink. Um, but they're they're they're the they're they're the thoughts that are always in my head. So there's always this anxiety lingering. And by being out, however, when I was younger and drinking and and sort of getting that that high, I really felt invincible. Like I was confident, I was confident to talk to girls, I was confident to talk to people. I was that guy who would walk up to someone random and be like, dude, love your shirt, and then all of a sudden I'm hanging out with those people and drinking and partying. And now completely different, uh, very recluse, very keep to myself type person when we are out and about always on guard. Um, but I did chase that rush for so long, and probably longer than I needed to. Like I remember having what you'd call your first experience with with drugs probably around about 19 or 20. Um, and from there, sort of not relied on them but used them as a masking tool when I was out to feel that confidence and feel that rush. And it was probably because I was operating as an imposter to gain validation from others. So if I could always go back in time, I would tell myself, don't take criticism from someone you wouldn't go and ask advice from. And I think that's a that's a that's a crucial, crucial mantra to carry because we we do worry so much about validation from others, especially friends, family, and strangers. But are they the people that you'd go and get advice from? And if it's not who you'd go and get advice from, then don't take any criticism from them because you don't need to listen to that. It just adds to the stress, adds to the worry, um, and just adds to, I think, yeah, poor mental health all around. I was the life of the party, um, and I thought people loved having me around, but my I'm not sure how their perception was of me at the time. But as I've gotten on, I sort of think was I sort of a use and abuse tool for a lot of people. Uh, people utilize me when to get what they want, uh, and then once they've got what they want, I become irrelevant. And I've that's sort of why I have my guard up so much. Obviously, parenthood makes you do that, I believe, especially in adverse situations. But that's probably now why I've got such a guard up at times with people. I mean, I am welcoming to people, so especially during this walk, I'm very welcoming and I want people to jump on board. But when I'm out and about, I'm always sort of on guard. And what I soon realized was by me thinking I was the life of the party, I sort of realised it was just sort of it was a facade, and like I said, I was disposable to most of them, which I've spoken about before when we had an issue. I think I was talking to Jaden about in our episode where our friendship group sort of sided with one person, didn't hear both sides. Now, that's immaturity when you're younger from my part and their part as well. Um, but you do realize quite quickly you're only as useful to people as much as they need you. Um, and and there's very rare that you do find those people. I do have some friends, I want to make that very clear. And some family, but mainly friends who um have stuck by me through thick and thin, and they know exactly who they are. So if they're listening, just know that I I love you guys. Um, but the rest of them, you know, like I've like I've said, I wish them no poor health, no harsh feelings, no resentment. I've carried that for a long time. I've let go of that now, but I just realized that I was disposable to them, and that's just a reflection of themselves. And it was really hard to deal with. Um as you get older and you start to strip back who you are and start to realize that you probably weren't as valued as what you thought you were. And that's a really, really hard road to take, a very lonely one. Uh I've said it before, trying to work on oneself and heal and grow is probably the loneliest place you'll ever be. Trust me, coming from me, it is an extremely lonely place. And even though I've got two beautiful kids and a beautiful wife, and you know, good for a good core group of friends and and family around, I always feel lonely. Um, and I I find that's just what you need to do. You need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And those those early days were really costing me my mental health. And I've spoken to people in confidence before about stuff like this, and they're like, oh, it could have been, you know, the the recreational drug use, could have been the drinking, which was binge drinking, really. Um, but I think those things just bring to the forefront what's sitting in our subconscious, what's sitting at the back of our head, and it was causing me a lot of mental health issues. Um, and then once I had children, it was sort of costing me my happiness, my clarity, and my growth. And not that I'm one to, I don't really drink anymore. Um, I probably drink maybe one drink on a birthday. I think my 30th, which was four years ago, um, I enjoyed myself and I had a beautiful night out. But I just try not to wake up too dusty. Like even this Christmas had just passed. I didn't even go to a work breakup or a work party. Um, I know, I mean, I know the kids were were under the weather, but old joke would have just gone, I'm heading there, I don't really care the consequences, but um growth, I suppose, brings clarity and brings a clearer path. And for me now, I don't want to miss out on anything because of a hangover or because of a come down. Um, and I think that's valuable to us. I see a lot of young men and a lot who I've worked with and become close with over the years in construction who still chase that rush. And while it's all good and well, and I think you know, I'm a big believer of go and enjoy yourself. Like I always say to my wife, I'd love to go to Ibiza or I'd love to go to Tomorrowland, just the two of us, and enjoy ourselves just one more time since having kids. Um, but at the same time, don't chase that rush every weekend. It's really not worth it. Um, there were two breaking points for me on when I realised it all had to end. And there was the friendship fallout that I've spoken about in the Jaden episode, which killed the people pleaser and the moment at home that sort of forced everything for me to change. So the people pleasing stopped after falling out over a girl with a mate. Um I've like I said, if you want to go back to episode, I think it's 14 with Jaden, uh, feel free to, and we talk about that experience in there because we share the same friendship group. But I cut my friendship group from let's say 15 to 20 people to about four. And that's all I've kept since then. I do see the others, and it's fantastic to see them and see them growing up, but I also look at them, uh a core group of them, not all of them, but a bulk of them, and especially the males in that group, and they're doing the same shit I was doing when I was, you know, mid-20s and now we're in our 30s, and I just think it's sad. And I think they're masking a lot, and and I at times do want to reach out just to see how they are doing and how if they're okay, but it's a it's a touchy subject for me. So I struggle with reaching out to that group. I struggle with seeing them. I have crazy anxiety when I am around them, but I'm getting better at that. Um the wake-up, it was probably the wake-up call about like who actually mattered in that moment. Looking back at it now, you're always going to have hindsight. At the time, it was the worst thing to ever happen to me. You know, I'm in my early 20s. I've got a great friendship group, and like I said, I thought everyone wanted me around. All of a sudden, Jake's thrown to the bin and he's disposable. Um, and it hit really hard. There were some really dark moments, but there were out of that core friendship group, there were probably two or three that really, really stuck beside me. And, you know, one of them was Jaden and um another one of our mates, uh Luke, and there's another guy, Eric, who I grew up with. We were best much, we're inseparable since primary school. The other three that really listened to me and sort of were those shoulder for me to lean on, and and we've remained close throughout the years, and I'm so grateful for them. But everyone else just, yeah, like I said, pushed me to the side. And I saw a lot of it as kind of deceitful and and and it did hurt, but it's part of growing up. And being in that moment and walking through that darkness, that's what the walk's about, is walking and taking that path. Taught me a lot about who I am and and that I do matter. Uh the bigger moment than all of that was probably the one at home. And it's being in such a depressive state that I actually wanted to end my life. And around that time, we were struggling, my wife and I, in our relationship. Um, we just had soul, we were unsure of what it's what it was like. He was up every 50 minutes, he was wasn't sleeping because of his eyes, and he was, you know, and when I say he was up every 50 minutes, like 50 minutes he'd wake up, feed for 15, and then he'd be back up in 35 minutes. So it was like a 50-minute turnaround, and I was still at work, and Shan was expressing me, it was just, and you're so sleep-deprived, so run down, you got no answers, and I was in a very depressive state. Like I thought, this is my first exposure to fatherhood and parenthood, and I'm mentally not here, and I don't think I'll ever mentally be here, and it's a very, very dark place. So anyone who is in that, um just know it does get better and and and it will get better, but it I I I feel you, and I have a lot of empathy and sympathy because I have been there. But around that time, I'll my wife and I weren't really getting along. Um, she was pretty much single mothering our child. And she said to me, I think it's probably best that you you leave or you go. Um, and and and it really fucking hurt me to the core, but it was extremely warranted for her to feel that way. Um and I spiraled a bit at first, but then I got brought back pretty quickly. I spiraled because I was already in that state of like, well, I think I don't need to be here. I don't think I'm worthy of living anymore. And then she validated it by saying, Well, I think you should leave. Now I took that in the state I was in as not probably go to your parents or go book a hotel and just figure out what you want to do. I took it as, you know, leave this place, and and it was a very, very dark time, and not one that I've spoken about openly a hell of a lot. I have to her, um, I have to some people, but very tough time, but to come out of it the other side, like on proof that you can come out the other side of that. And don't get me wrong, sometimes it still lingers in a little bit. Not the depressive, take my own life type stuff like I was then, but that worry and that sort of, you know, would it be easier if I wasn't here? And those thoughts sort of linger in, but I get brought back really quick. Like I've got tools and ways that I can uh mediate those situations within myself. And during that time, that was when I realized the change had to start. Uh, and not not because I wanted to, because I had to. Like, I'm a dad now. In that moment, I was like, I'm a father now, this boy needs me more than ever, which I already knew, but I was escaping it so much. So, what I had to let go of as a man in order to grow is the masks, the habits, and the identity. So, throughout my entire journey, they are the three things I've had to strip away from myself and rebuild, which we've talked about the rebuild stage. I stopped pleasing others to the detriment of my happiness, which is something that I'm working on every single day, and I'm doing it now, especially with family. I feel like a lot of the time we put such an emphasis around making sure we attend this thing and making sure you speak to that person. Oh, you didn't say goodbye to this uncle, you didn't say goodbye to this auntie, you never come to these things. If they don't make you happy, don't fucking do them. It's as simple as that. And if people can't handle that, you you know, you may not have the capacity for that. Like I don't have the capacity for that. I'm burnt out every day from you know, medically complex parenting, sleep deprivation, providing all these things. It's a tough economy to be living in and working in. Um I just don't feel like spending my spare time filling all your cups. I cut off a lot of people who were toxic for me. Not that they're toxic people, but for me they were. Um and I am extremely grateful that I made that decision. Um, I remember even in those sort of later years, prior to kids, but sort of when my wife and I were together, there was a friend I would call him, and I well probably wasn't the greatest energy to be around at the time, but he wanted to get into music, and and I, you know, was sort of established in that music and DJing scene, and you know, we started trying to work together, and it just felt like instead of him being a true friend and seeing that I wasn't doing the right things or taking the right path and sort of pulling me back like I would for someone else, sort of just cut me off with no answers. And I've never really got answers. And I wish him all the best as well, you know. Um, but I did resent him for a long time. And these are all parts of growing and things you've got to strip back. But I softened and opened up more. Um, and that is something that I this podcast is something that proves that I've softened and opened up more. I want to help people. I want people to know that it's okay to not be okay. Um, you know, that it's, you know, what's that saying? It's not weak to speak. Like I want people to understand that, especially men and fathers, um, or even wives who see that their men, their their partner or their brother or their father are in those tough times and they can see it eating away at them. Just engage that conversation. Make them soften, you will get there. Um, and I focused really on being intentional rather than favorable to others, and that's a massive uh massive thing to do. Be intentional with your time, don't be favorable. Uh, you know, are you gonna stay home and watch a movie with your kids, or are you gonna go out to the pub and drink 40 beers with the boys? Now, the favorable thing to do, trust me, I've been there, is go to the pub and drink 40 beers with the boys. But the intentional thing to do is, hey, I'm gonna go down and have dinner and then I'm gonna come back, or I'm not even gonna go if you're that way inclined like I used to be, where you've got the rubber arm and you end up getting corraled, I suppose, and guided into drinking beers and staying, and then you carry the guilt. Just be more intentional with your decisions and your time. You pick your own path. There are people who are going to be major players, I would call them, in your journey, but at the same time, you're the only one who controls and dictates what you do and where you go and how you carry yourself. So the hardest things for me to let go of uh putting others first and being a yes man, that was an extremely hard thing for me to let go of. Um purely off the fact that I'd only ever known one thing, and that one thing was to put others first. And I didn't know who I was without it. Um I know we're sort of going through that stage right now as a family where my wife is getting to a point where sort of the older generations are getting older, and the grandparents are still there, but you know, she can see that. They're aging and they're and and it's it's a tricky period because I've lost both my or all my grandparents. So I have carried that grief. I've been through those moments. I know that people age, people move on, and that's just a part of life. But she's sort of in that moment right now, and I think me sometimes going, well, I don't want to go to that, or I don't want to go to this. And sometimes it's a joint decision. Um, as I've spoken about before, sometimes it feels like you just go to fill others' cups, but other times I feel like we have to say yes to things, but the reward is is greater than saying no. So that's something I've had to let go of, and I'm finding it really hard to let go of that fully. But at the same time, it's just picking your battles. The social life that I used to have, I do grief. Um I do miss going out. I do miss, like I said, no anxiety on the dance floor, not worrying what people think of me. Being in good shape is one thing that I do miss, and I work, try and work pretty hard to get my body back to what it used to be, or at least close to what it used to be. But that's also a work in progress. Um, like I said, the dream body, the confidence, and the care free nights out are probably the hardest thing. I think any male and female as well, like once mothers, you know, have have a baby and their body changes their hormones, hormones change, their hormonal balance is all over the place. Takes them a long time to get back. Um, and it does take a long time, and you do grieve what you used to have, and you don't know what you've got until it's gone. So it's been extremely hard to let go of. And like I said, I do grieve the golden days. And that what I've come to realize is that chapter's still in the book, but now I'm writing a new and more meaningful life and a new mean, more meaningful chapter, and that's how I've reframed it. So that chapter is still in the book, but I'm writing a new chapter within this book. Um, and you have to keep writing chapters, you have to keep uh working and healing oneself in order to grow. And I'll I'll keep saying that. It's progression over perfection, takes a long time, takes a lot of uncomfortable moments, uh, takes a lot of darkness at times, but it it it is in order for you to become the best version of who you are, you need to be putting one foot in front of the other and being really intentional with your time. There were people who didn't want me to change. Uh, this is, you know, the the pushback I did get from people. And people preferred the old joke. And a lot of people did resist the change. A lot of people, when I cut them off, you know, over the years have gone, I haven't heard from you in years, you know, we're used to this, used to that. It's just like I don't have fucking time for you. That's the the honest answer, I don't have the time, don't have the energy. You had your chance, you did your dash. And that's not being ungrateful, it's not being resentful, it's just being very intentional with my time and who takes up my energy. I have had from family over the years, like, where did that sweet little Jakey boy go? And um, where did that sweet little boy go? Who used to just sit there and and and beside us and and and play, and you know, never had a tantrum, never this. And now having kids, I think, gee, it's so sad that I never sat there and I didn't have the space to cry. Didn't have the space to sort of, you know, be, you know, I don't know if I was or not, but those things make me think, well, when I did cry, when I did feel, you know, like we say to our kids, big feelings or emotions, like they I just got told to sit there and be a good boy. And you know, in those moments, I know my kids, they just need a hug. Not to cry it out, don't let them sit on their own. That's terrible. I can I can't do that, my wife can't do that, but just to be able to sit there and hold them and make them uh realize that, and there's studies to show that that is the best way for them to become emotionally regulated as they get older, is to have that support. And what I've come to notice is all these people who have pushback are from people that I used to say yes to all the time. So people who I used to obey and say, and be, I suppose, what you call a good boy to. Um, and like I said, I feel it from family a lot. Um, friends, I do, I did for a while, now I don't because it's been that long. Um, and when I do see them, it's kind of, you know, oh, they they sort of talk about, you know, how's the kids? How's this and that? That's okay, uh, you know, I ask them what they're doing, even though I can see they're doing, like I said, the same shit. No judgment. Like if you haven't grown up, if you haven't put yourself in a healing stage or on a path to to become a better version of oneself, then that's it's completely your choice. Like I said, no judgment. Um, I've been there, I did it when I was younger, but you know, now we're in our 30s. I think it's time that we start growing up and and having a, like I said, a lot more intentional and clearer path. But from family, I get it a lot. And like I still love them. Um and I know they love me. I think it's just because I don't say yes anymore. Um, and I don't sit there and just agree and obey and do everything that they say like I did for years when I was younger. Um I just don't have the time for bullshit and pettiness anymore. And and and that's that's what you grow up to realise. Sometimes you when you're younger, you see people who are older than you, especially around the your family dynamic, you know, whether it's your mother, your father, your your uncles, your aunties, whatever it is, you kind of look up to them, but as you get older, you start to see who they truly are. And it's not that they're terrible people. Like I said, you can only do what you can do with the tools you've got at the time, which is why we're so lucky as as this generation, we've got so many tools available. I think we should utilize them. Um, but you sort of you see as the years go on, like that person never worked on themselves, or that person never prioritised their health, or that per those two should never have been together, you know, and like you should never have had kids together, if that makes sense. Like I've seen that so many times, and it used to really bother me, but now it doesn't. Like, that's someone's choice, that's someone's life. You just gotta let them live it. Um, and like I said, I I again I just don't have time for bullshit or pettiness. You know, like I do have cousins, you know, I'm from Queensland, I was born up there, I do have a lot of cousins up there, and there's like only one or two, two that I speak to. One on the regular fucking legend, and the other one's an absolute legend, too. I just don't speak to them all the time. But the rest of them, like I wish them no hard feelings, I wish them nothing, but I at times we have clashed heads and we have butted heads and we have had disagreements, but that's because like I at that time I had the tools that I had and I used them to the best of my ability, which I th or thought I used them to the best of my ability. And a lot of the times it's me either defending my family or defending oneself or one's peace. Um, and I just say no now to anything that doesn't positively impact me or my family. So if it doesn't positively impact us, uh I'm just gonna say no. And I think people need to start understanding that. And when they push back, it's again, it's just a reflection of oneself because they're sort of sitting there going, Well, you used to say yes, you used to come to this, yeah. And it's like, yeah, but how much time I wasted sitting there having the same fucking conversation with you guys or hearing the same bullshit. Like, you know, there's there's some parts of our whole family scope who um think that, you know, it's okay to go to things and talk about people and bitch about people behind their back and whatever else, but by believing in something else or doing whatever, you you're saved or you're a good person. It's like you're a good person by the way you carry yourself and sticking true to your nature. That's my belief. So if if if you're gonna say, I don't like that person, then when you see them, don't have to go up and say, I don't like you, but don't give them the time and energy and give them a false narrative that you'd like them. I think that's the shadiest thing anyone can do. And I see it all the time, usually from family very close by. I see it all the time. They they just talk shit, they talk about others behind their backs, but then when they see them face to face, it's like, oh yeah, you know, wonderful to see you, but it's like you're so fucking fake. Stick true to what you believe. Um, and I've always done that. Like, I were over the years I've worked with people, and it may not be the best way to handle those situations, but some people will just go, look, I I don't resonate with what you're saying, I don't resonate with you. So, no offense to you. You're probably a fantastic person, but you and I don't gel. So come to me and talk to me whenever you want. I'll I'll be a set of ears to listen, whatever else, but I don't agree with this, or I don't agree with your view on that, but that makes you who you are, and I don't hold that against people. And it's not selfish, in my opinion, that's growth. In my opinion, it is growth to be able to say, to know what brings you negative energy and what brings you positive energy and which path to follow. Ensuring that it's a positive outcome for yourself and your family, your mental health, your peace, your harmony. Make sure every decision that you make is in your best interests and your family's best interests. So, what the new version of me looks like and is slowly coming to fruition and has been over the years is uh the day-to-day stuff, you know, like this isn't um, you know, philosophy, this is like real day-to-day things that have I've had to change over the years. And, you know, I've had diet changes, saying no to things that I'd normally say, you know, yes to, then regret. Um, I'm making a lot of time for hobbies, you know. Obviously, you guys see all these episodes getting turned out, and you know, this this takes up time, and it's not just that I come in here, record, and go. Like I'm spending a lot of my time in this space and working on ideas and recording content, um, being more active with the back, it's a bit hard. We've had to put a halt on the physio side of things because my back went again around Easter. Um, so it's been a slow and steady progress, but you know, um I've I've started to really focus on like learning from people who are in the podcast space and doing research into things and why we as a society and why we as men and fathers are struggling so much. Um being a lot more present, so trying not to worry about the future or trying not to regret the past, which is something I did for a lot of years. Um I always thought back to those golden days, and and then I worry so much about the future now having children. Um, I worry about what that looks like for them. Um, I worry about what Soul's journey is going to look like for him. I worry about what Atlas's journey is gonna look like for him. Like there's so much to unpack there, but it's trying to really just stay grounded and present and not think too far ahead in the future and not worry too far about, you know, it you can always say could've, would have, should have. And I grew up in that family dynamic where it's like, you know, what if the business didn't fail, or what if we had a moved here, or what if this, or what if that, or what if we had more money? But being present is probably the the best thing you can do. And again, it's not easy. This is a work in progress, um, and it's rewarding and challenging all at once. And it's the Jaden said it perfectly in that episode 14. He goes, this the journey is such a beautiful thing. And you don't realize it when you're going through it, but it is, it's such a beautiful thing. And like I said, the version of me used to have 20 odd people. No, the old version of me used to have a friendship group of 20 people. I've cut that down to maybe three or four, but I've also made some tremendous mates over the time, some who I've worked with over the years and we've become very close. Um, one who's, you know, like I said, I've spoken about him before. Um his name's Sam, and he's older than me, and he's just a fucking fantastic bloke. Um, wonderful guy. He's not the older brother I don't have, and I absolutely adore him and his guidance and he'll he's non-biased, which is the great thing. Um, I remember talking about this podcast, and he's like, just go and do it, mate. Like you're fantastic. And, you know, I know when he calls and sort of comes to me for advice, but he doesn't probably realize a lot of the time I go to him for a lot of advice, and I do value it, so I do love him very much. And I suppose what's replaced the quantity is quality, quality of friends over the years, um, quality of connections, um, quality of environments that you're putting yourselves in instead of the quantity. Growth isn't linear, however, and the old me will still show up. Um, and when the old Jake sort of creeps back in, it comes across at times in ways of like I still bottle things up because I don't want to burden my wife. I switch off, become very blunt. Uh, she notices it straight away uh and slowly gets it out of me over time. It's like kind of leading a uh like a bear out of the woods with honey, I suppose, or treats. Like she slowly gets it out of me, um, and she's amazing, and like I wouldn't be here without her. Like in those dark times, which has been quite a few times over the years, she's really stuck beside me, and I'm I'm I'm so thankful for her. Um I don't always let my guard down when the old Jake starts to um creep back in, and I worry about the future of my family. I think that's very relatable to a lot of fathers. Um, and I do that is a topic I do want to cover later in the piece. It's saying it is a piece that I'm working on. Um, but uh I think the worry will never leave us as parents and as fathers and as providers, but we can get better at managing it and focusing, like I said, on being present. Um when I get a temper, it does show up towards people who really aggravate me. Um and it's something again that I'm working on. Um and it's not like in a physical aggression, it's not, it's just more like fuck off, I just can't be around you. And again, I think it's warranted in our situation to feel like that at times because you're so burnt and exhausted and overworked and um overstimulated with everything that goes on in our dynamic. Um, and the old version of me just doesn't disappear completely. He visits, as the way I'd put it, like he will visit the old version of me from time to time, and the work is recognizing him when he does, and sort of slowly ushering him out the door. So I don't shy away from that. Um, I think it's great to have memories. I think it's great to have a little bit of dog in you and be protective and and do all that, but also think, like I said, there's beauty in being soft, and softness is probably a sign of strength as well. So, like I said, when he does visit, I'll open the door and let him in for a brief m minute. Notice that he's there, be comfortable and sit with that, and then open the door and let him back out. It's just a quick visit. So if you're if if you're a person sort of trying to write your new chapter and you're still carrying the old version of yourself, um, it's probably costing you a lot of peace. And it's maybe costing you relationships, your health, your presence with your kids, and and more importantly, the inner peace within oneself. And you and you are allowed to let that version go. You're gonna get pushback, you're gonna have a lot of people who aren't in your corner who you think would be in your corner and they're not, and that's okay. That's part of growth, that's okay. Just remember that it's like it is okay to let that part of you go. And I think we need to have a version. Like I said, that's what this episode's about. We need to have a version of ourself that needs to die for another one to be born and another one to grow. And that because of letting that that version of you go, doesn't mean that it's a bad person, or he was a bad person, or you were a bad person. It's just they can't come with you where you're going right now. So think of it as, you know, how I think all of us can relate to. We would have had one friend over the years. I mean, I had fucking 15, but we had what we'd have that one friend when you are in those big groups, you're just like, this guy just does my head in, like he's too much, or he's always getting in fights, or I always feel like I have to watch him. Uh, and you sort of got to slowly cut that person off. And then you do, and you're like, oh, a bit of breathing space. It's exactly what you need to do with that old version of yourself. And you will grieve that person, and that's normal. And you'll hear songs that will take you back to those moments, and that's normal. Like, like I said, don't you worry, child, by Swedish House Mafia. I get goosebumps, I can I can taste the gin and tonic in my mouth when I hear it, you know. Um I can smell the nightclub, like I I can still remember all those things, and you you will miss the freedom, you'll miss the carelessness, and you'll miss the rush. There's times that I do, trust me, many times that I do. Um but you won't miss the emptiness that's underneath it. And that's one thing I don't miss. You know, used to be, I used to go to work, I'd hang out, I'd go to one joint, I'd go to like if you're from Melbourne, you'll relate to this, but I'd go to the edgy on a Wednesday, then I go to factory on a Thursday, then I'd head to my local on a Friday, maybe end up at Tramp. Um, leave tramp, go home, not have any sleep, or minimal sleep, minimal rest, not eat, back drinking, head to sorry grandma's, finish up, you know, back at Tramp or Cloud Nine and then get home on a Sunday and like absolutely hate myself. I was working uh part-time on a weekend at the supermarket, go there, do a night shift, and then back at work on a Monday. And I was just I look at it and I'm like, there's so much emptiness to it. Now there were great memories from that. Um, and I do miss that rush sometimes, but uh yeah, just obviously you you grow up and you're not as not as a Toby Keith song, not as good as I once was. Um but at the same time, like I said, there's so much emptiness, and you're probably masking a lot, and you need to let that version of you die, and then be able to move on and grow. The key takeaway will be that that chapter of you will always be in your book, but now you're writing a new one, and it's a more meaningful one, and the most rewarding thing about the whole thing is the man or the person or the father that you're becoming. There's nothing more rewarding than that. And I think that if we treat it as we're trying to get to the peak of the mountain, we're never gonna get there. But that journey up, it's gonna be hard. You're gonna have to camp sometimes and stay where you are, and you're gonna have to move to the next bit of the summit. You're gonna have to keep going, and you might never reach the top because of the conditions surrounding that that climb. But the journey's so much worth so worth it. And that's coming from me and lived experience and being open and honest with you guys, that it is so worth it. And you need to be proud of the direction and the clarity that you're beginning to possess as you do grow and as you do progress along your walk. And being a family man is an absolute privilege. Um, and it's something that I've said before that fatherhood is the greatest privilege, and parenthood is the greatest privilege anyone can have. And I think that is the key takeaway from today. Um, and if you're not someone who's inclined to have a family, then that's completely okay. But you can keep doing the same shit that you were doing. I did it for years, and I still see people, like I said, doing it now. And that's the worst case scenario. The best case scenario, you don't even know what that is until you put the work in. So put the work in, write that new chapter. Like I said, that old chapter will stay in that book, but write that new one. I'm Jake Dunley, and this is the walk.